Channel Four’s Dispatches programme, ‘Cruises Undercover: The Truth Below Deck’, which aired last night, didn’t do the cruise industry any favours.
An undercover reporter, Paul Mills, got himself a job on Celebrity Eclipse as an assistant waiter, filming secretly as he went about his work and condemning the cruise line for the low pay, the long hours and some unsavory practices going on below decks. “Welcome to hell,” said the reporter’s new roommate, an Eastern European waiter.
Celebrity Cruises is formulating its own response to the programme and we’ll be interested to see how they defend some of the allegations. But meanwhile, here are our thoughts on the main points raised, the working hours and the pay.
Yes, crew work incredibly long hours, on all cruise ships, across the industry. It’s a young person’s job. They also tend to party hard, but we weren’t shown any of that. And those from poor or developing countries are there for a single reason: A job on a cruise ship provides them with the means to send money home to their families, far more money than they would be likely to earn back home. The documentary did not dwell on this for long.
Yes, the wages are low. But it was clearly stated in the documentary that Celebrity would make up any shortfall in a waiter’s job if the minimum level of tips were not achieved. And why keep invoking the minimum wage in the U.K. as a standard to which cruise lines should adhere? Celebrity Eclipse is flagged in Malta and the company is registered in Liberia. In some regions of the Philippines, from where many cruise ship crew come, the minimum wage is just over £3 a day in the backbreaking world of agriculture, with no accommodation and no food (both of which are provided on a cruise ship). So a cruise job is beginning to look quite attractive to a Filipino worker who can send home over £600 a month.
Tazeen Ahmad: The presenter of Cruises Undercover
The presenter of the programme, Tazeem Ahmad, who travelled on the cruise in question as a passenger, seemed ridiculously naïve. Why bang on about the level of luxury above decks compared to the hive of industry below as though it’s an outrage? Is a five-star hotel or a busy restaurant kitchen any more cosy behind the scenes? It was almost as though she expected the cruise to be like a holiday for the workers.
Why just pick on one cruise ship? And the one disgruntled former employee of Royal Caribbean who was interviewed? Why not look at some of the positives, like the medical cover, sick pay and pension provision? Or some different cruise lines? I’ve been on smaller ships where we’ve partied with the crew in bars ashore, where the crew have been invited to bring relatives onboard in port, where a basketball court has been set up on the quayside for a crew vs officers match, where the bar has closed early for a crew party on deck … it’s not all hell.
And then there were the experts wheeled out. A university professor whose works include books like ‘Paradise Lost at Sea: Rethinking Cruise Vacations’ and a Miami-based lawyer who specialises in cases against cruise lines. Say no more.
And while Paul-the-undercover-waiter goes on about cruising being a ‘poignant metaphor for wider global divisions’ and calling for ships to be ‘bound to laws of the country out of which they operate’, let’s not forget that if this were to happen, ships would need to carry many more crew, fares would rocket, the industry would probably collapse and hundreds of thousands of workers from developing countries would be out of a job.
Yes, elements of crew conditions do present a moral dilemma, as do (to me, anyway), conditions in the construction industry in the Middle East, or sweatshops in India, or supermarkets that don’t stock enough Fair Trade produce. But next time, let’s hear both sides of the story, please.
Did you watch Dispatches? Let us know what you thought.
–Sue Bryant
Looking back: P&O fires Indian crew for walkout.
141 Comments
October 2, 2012 at 11:14 am
Yes very one sided. Watched the program last night and had the same thoughts as yours.
Looking forward to the response from Celebrity.
October 2, 2012 at 7:19 pm
My only concern is how tips make up the minimum wage. NCL for example charge $12 per person per day, which just for 1cabin is $774 per month, nearly 1 crew members wage. In reality the tips probably pay everyone’s wage on the ship and through per payment tip program’s all the consumer is supporting is the cruise lines profit margin. I for one while not be participating in the cruise lines tip program again and will be paying the cabin staff personally
October 3, 2012 at 5:33 pm
I’m interested in who owns the cruise critic wedsite ?
The response by cruise critic is hardly balanced and i suspect represents the position of the cruise companies . Asking employees to pay for thier own uniforms is disgraceful. Employers need to treat staff properly and stop being so greedy.
Hiding behind flags of convenience to evade decent standards is hardly the actions of caring employers. Well done dispatches.
October 16, 2012 at 6:50 pm
Michael, I work for a very well known bank here in the US and I have to buy my own “uniforms”. We are required to wear the “branded” clothes and nothing else but I was only “allowed” $100 to buy my clothing. It covered 3 shirts. I am now being told I can’t wear a plain button up white shirt (that they made me purchase when I started there), I now have to buy the “branded” shirt for another $40 (out of pocket). There are quite a few companies that do “shady” things.
October 3, 2012 at 5:44 pm
I agee entirely, My wife and I have always paid the various staff members tips handed to them personnaly,with our thanks for a job well-done.
The tips system on most cruise ships is an outrage ! crews should be paid a living wage like other workers, some are even given vouchers I am told that have to be spent on board the ship-so the cruise line makes money both ways.We have done eight cruises in the last few years – but no more until this mess is sorted.These crew staff are wonderful,they work very long hours and are often ill treated.
October 3, 2012 at 7:37 pm
I wish some one would explain why the charges on board are $12.00 a day but only $7.00 if you prepay on NCL. On RCI 50% off if you prepay, who gets shorted or if the 50% and the $7.oo is the real tip rate, who gets the rest.
I have asked in the past but got told it’s none of my business, but it is MY MONEY they want.
October 29, 2012 at 10:10 pm
Not sure where you get your info but (as least on NCL) they charge you $12 a day x 7 (days in my case) x 2 = $168.
It really ain’t that hard.
October 3, 2012 at 10:12 am
In my view, pay the staff proper wages and price the cruises accordingly (including tips). Otherwise tipping can become very unfair if some passengers do and others do not.
October 3, 2012 at 9:52 pm
I agree 100%. If the cost of the cruise goes up, then that’s the price we as passengers should bear to ensure that crew have good pay and conditions at sea … just as we do on land. That’s only fair IMO
October 3, 2012 at 10:28 am
Not a seasoned cruiser by any means, but my experience is that the crew really seem tolove their jobs. I would doubt that level of enthusiasm could be shown if they didn’t enjoy what they were doing.
October 3, 2012 at 10:18 pm
Malcom,
it’s one of the mainstays of cruise lines that the workers MUST look happy … a worker who doesn’t look happy brings passengers down and also generates a raft of complaints … trust me on that one.
Looking happy but actually feeling happy are two different things.
October 3, 2012 at 10:47 am
I too saw the programme, and thought either it was very one-sided or it is a particularly bad cruise line to work for. I do a lot of cruising on Thomson ships, and yes the staff do work hard, but they also seem genuinely happy, and they tell you that they get much more money than they would working at home. One waiter I spoke to was saving enough to go home and start up his own business. Tips are included with Thomsons, but most people are so overwhelmed by the excellent service and wonderful staff that they want to tip individuals on top of this. I have seen repeat customers and cabin stewards/bar staff embracing each other when they meet again, and I have heard customers invite staff to come and stay if ever they are in the UK.
October 3, 2012 at 10:54 am
why do the cruise lines rely on tips to top up the workers pay why not pay them a proper wage instead of relying on the passengers to top it up.o
October 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm
I think you’ll find tips might be a way of getting the best out of the staff that serve you most i.e, room attendant and dining room staff, if they are guaranteed money you might not get decent service. I think the cruise lines have to keep the staff on their toes.
We have done nearly 30 cruises with Rccl, nearly every room attendant would give us a sob story of some sort, this ended up being disappointing in the end, looked like they were after sympathy in the form of extra gratuities come the end of cruise, and it worked!
If the staff are guaranteed wages and then put that guarantee with very long hours and 8,9,10 months away from home it’s going to be hard to continuously perform.
My beliefs are that if you go on a cruise and receive quality care and attention from the dining room and stateroom staff then you should be paying their wages.
We have always prepaid our tips and always gave extra on the evening before disembarkation, some deserved it more than others.
I’m with the cruise ships on the need for tips to make up the wages, it can only work fairly if the customer pays up when looked after.
October 4, 2012 at 7:16 am
We have done nearly 25 cruises with RCCL/Celebrity, every room attendant we have had has really been fantastic. Some you make a connection with and have some banter and others leave you alone. They are all courteous, hard working and always have a smile on and a greeting for you. We have always given an extra gratuity on top of the guidelines to reward their service, however, if they were not up to scratch we would not hesitate to remove this.
Unfortunately this programme was inaccurate because the cruise service industry does not attract UK employees in the catering areas very often, due to the unattractive rates of pay. It is not a new story. They fill their positions from Indonesia generally or former Eastern European countries. It is sad that this is the case but it is a worldwide based product and attracts staff accordingly.
Many have said to us they do the job for so many years, set themselves and their families up for their futures financially. They are then attractive employees to companies back in their home countries due to their cruise service industry experience.
Prices constantly get cut and no, it is not the same quality of product cruising was 10 or 15 years ago. But it is still great in comparison to many hotels holidays.
It was unfortunate that CH4 highlighted the Celebrity Eclipse as it could easily have picked holes in Cunard, P&O etc who also homeport out of Southampton.
Programme would not put off regular cruisers as many of us knew these facts years ago.
Where to next…;)
October 3, 2012 at 12:12 pm
“And why keep invoking the minimum wage in the U.K. as a standard to which cruise lines should adhere? Celebrity Eclipse is flagged in Malta and the company is registered in Liberia”
Why! Purely so that they can pay the slave wages they pay.If you think that just because the majority of the crew come form under developed countries they should be grateful for the pittance paid for the hours worked then you are as morally bankrupt as the cruise lines.The Crew party and play volleyball,well whoopee!!
I would happily pay a few pounds extra for my cruise if I knew the hard working,invisible elements of the crew were being properly recompensed for their hard work.
October 3, 2012 at 9:54 pm
Hear hear.
October 3, 2012 at 8:43 pm
It’s typical of the media today to predetermine the slant of a programme without having all sides of the story. There are disgruntled employees in any industry and the fact is simply that the low prices charged by the cruise lines have allowed the industry to grow phenominally creating huge numbers of jobs. If the tips were included in the price then it may become restrictive to the industry..leading to less bookings and less jobs. People taking jobs on cruise ships know what the job is about before accepting it with all the negative and positive conditions. TV producers should stop allowing vindictive , garbage to be presented as ‘factual’ documentaries.
October 4, 2012 at 12:20 am
Having travelled on Celebrity Eclipse and two Royal Caribbean ships plus several other cruise lines my strong impression has been that all is not well on Celebrity and Royal Caribbean. They pretty well force a high tipping level from the customers, (it now appears to be a way of saving on wages – the workers might get nothing from their tips); the waiters almost beg for ‘excellent’ scores on the feedback forms. Quote three waiters and two cruise directors, “‘Very good’ is not good at all. I appreciate that pitiful wages for a European might be quite good for some third world workers but surely wages should be based on what we are receiving by way of service. I had certainly decided to avoid the American ships for future cruises after my most recent Royal Caribbean cruise. There was for me a feeling of the crew trying too hard to please. I thought that many smiles were really forced. Yes it would have been good to compare with other cruise lines – my strong feeling is that many would have come out much better.
October 4, 2012 at 12:40 am
Any idea where i can watch this program. Their website says it is not available in Canada.
October 4, 2012 at 7:19 pm
The assistant waiter was on our cruise and we were speaking to him in the ocean cafe. He certainly did not look unhappy or indeed exhausted as he made out on the television. He was saying how he was enjoying the cruise.
October 11, 2012 at 11:43 pm
The Channel 4 documentary confirmed my fears. Much as I loved the cruise I went on a couple of years ago, I realised that I wouldn’t be able to reconcile my conscience re cut price holidays for westerners with the needs and dignity of those being paid pennies to work horrendous hours massaging our egos. In the West we expect to receive a fair day’s pay for a fair days work as our right, surely that should apply in this case too. Cheap holidays but at what expense – surely we can afford better?
October 2, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Will ‘Cruises Undercover: The Truth Below Deck’ re-air? Also, is it, or will it, air in the U.S.?
October 3, 2012 at 2:31 pm
We’re not sure if it will re-air Kay, but you can watch it here:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od
October 2, 2012 at 2:22 pm
If the comments and interviews with crew members were the worst the programme could muster then I would hope most viewers will dismiss it as a typical Channel 4 documentary, heavy on inuendo and light on content.
October 2, 2012 at 2:23 pm
The programme should have used examples from several cruise lines, and asked representatives from all the lines used to give their side of the story .
I have never seen happier crewe members than the ones I encountered on Holland America Ships, and they cannot be just be pretending to be pleased to have a steady job.
October 3, 2012 at 10:01 pm
Oh yes they can !!
I have heard from crew that they HAVE to smile and look happy. Customers complain when someone doesn’t look happy and the crew get into trouble !!
The crew jump through hoops to satisfy the cruise line’s obsessive demands knowing that they may not have their contract renewed if they don’t do everything the cruise line demands or exceeds the passenger’s expectations.
On the last cruise I did, a crew member was removed from his position because a passenger complained that he refused to get something for her. The fact was, he was in the Bar without any other assistants and he had other customers lined up and he could not leave his post. He rang another bar to ask them to bring down what the customer wanted but she walked off in a huff and complained … but still the crew member was removed and placed in an outside bar on the top deck in the cold.
October 4, 2012 at 9:24 am
Just a question: and in which department have been that person working?
October 2, 2012 at 2:33 pm
The programme should have used examples from several cruise lines, and asked representatives from all the lines used to give their side of the story .
I have never seen happier crew members than the ones I encountered on Holland America Ships, and they cannot be just pretending to be pleased to have a steady job.
October 2, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Unless the crew has been kidnapped and forced to slave labor, they are free to choose if they want to work on a cruise ship or not. Some positions do require long, hard days of work in exchange for a wage, food, cabin and medical care. But to many of the workers from third world countries, this is a dream come true.
October 3, 2012 at 10:05 pm
That may be so but is it ethical to pay workers very low wages and work them very long hours just because they can ?
The profits of the cruise lines seem to show just how well they are doing … all thanks to paying passengers and not paying their workers a fair and reasonable wage.
October 2, 2012 at 3:00 pm
I hope we can get to see this documentary in Canada. Sounded like one sided and yes, would like to hear response from Celebrity as well.
I’ve been on many cruises. The jobs of people working in the restaurants, cleaning cabins, the low paying jobs yes they work very long hours. They rely on tips. I feel sorry for them and I know work on the ships would pay better than back home.
The jobs centred around the cruise director, front desk I’m sure are paid very well and work less hours. It would be interesting to see a documentary on that as well on the same show as of the lower paid staff.
October 2, 2012 at 3:30 pm
COMPLETELY agree with everything in this article. I was very disappointed with the programme last night and I think it’s such a shame that people with no experience of cruising or knowledge are making assumptions based on the programme. I find it outrageous that people on social networks are calling the crew slaves. Slavery is definitely not what goes on onboard those ships. Channel 4 have made a VERY biased programme and painted an unfair and untrue picture of the cruise industry.
October 2, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Providing medical cover and free board and lodgings doesnt make it right to make someone work such long hours every single day even if the conditions are better than they have back home.
You may say its a one sided report but its pretty obvious the lower crew members are being taken advantage of and no one to fight their corner. Its all very well to make their pay up if there are not enough tips but the contract ‘scam’ over working conditions and pay not arriving til after they have sailed and then deducting most of their first pay to buy their own uniforms and flight deposit home???
Ive been on over 50 cruises and Celebrity is always our first choice but Ive seen how hard these people work and how they are always friendly and willing to please. Ive also seen the over abundance of officers wandering around looking important but not doing much and not always friendly to passengers !! Lets see an undercover report of how much these officers are paid and their conditions and time off!!!!
October 2, 2012 at 7:19 pm
Lets see Dispatches do an undercover investigation in a television factory in a place like Vietnam. Do they realise the modern widescreen HD TVs their viewers buy to view their shows are made by people earning far less than cruise industry workers?
October 2, 2012 at 7:39 pm
This is on my Opinion again one of this Eyecatching Storys without checking the reals.Myself I´ve been working for 16 Years on different Cruisships, yes we had long Workinghours.But we did it because we earned a lot of Money. The Difference to today was:
We all in the Diningroom-Barstaff ( no Matter what Position) was a trained Hospitality and Catering Person . We all had a Training for a Minimum of 3 Years in a 4-5 Star Hotel or Restaurant. Or we had to finish the Hospitality Academy for 5 Years!. We were able to cook on the Table like in very good upscaled Restaurant.Today the Waiters barely know what they serve. Just placing a Plate in Front of a Guest is not areally heavy Job. I have done nnow a few Cruiises as a Passenger and I think I know what I am talking about.
October 3, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Not all cruise lines have auto tips … eg P&O Australia took the auto gratuities off the ships a couple of years ago.
Passengers were happy and thought that the cruise line actually gave the crew a pay rise to compensate for the potential loss of tips … but they did not … their pay stayed the same.
So while you may have earned a lot of money, not all cruise lines offer the same conditions under which you worked
October 2, 2012 at 7:39 pm
Surely the point is, the passengers (guests) should not be relied on to pay the crew’s wages. The tips should be over and above the salary which should be a fair one – I agree board and lodging has to be accounted for, uniforms too, but they should come out of this FAIR salary and not the pittance it was shown to be.
October 2, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Very little new in the programme, but I think it’s upset some new cruisers who haven’t been told how it works. Of course, there are cruise lines where the grats are much less or included, but that’s probably shown in the original price.
What I dislike is the pretence of cruise lines-”for your convenience”; “travel for under $100 a day” (not including grats, I presume….), and the suggestion that you’re done with tipping now you’ve paid up front, yet there’s 15% on bar sales. I’d like to see everything listed openly before booking…..
October 3, 2012 at 3:14 am
Exactly some of the points I’ve been raising on Celebrity’s FB page but some ignore it and abuse if you disagree or accuse you of working for the company (two did that to me). I have an ex-boyfriend who worked for Cunard and RCCL during our time together so learnt a lot about how the crew side works and Dispatches so-called expose failed to mention a good 99% of it while exaggerating the rest. And the more reasonable cruisers among us will have spoken in depth to crew so learnt a lot, not just pass the time of day. The programme was a disgrace. Well done on the sort of balanced reporting Dispatches don’t know how to do.
October 3, 2012 at 10:15 am
I had the opposite view i thought the way they was treated was awful, i hve cruised a few times and was under the impression that tips were on top of wages not to make up any short fall. No wonder you have to opt out of tipping on most ships the cruise lines dont want you to because if you do then they have to pay the difference.
Also tell me how many more industries do you have to pay for your own uniform and pay to even work on their thats terrible.
Would you work all them hours for little pay? Just because you come from a poor country doesnt mean you should be used in that way.
Like many companies they dont care about the staff, you leave so what, plenty more to take your place. Yes they may have fun and time off ashore and families go on board but does this make up for all the hours and little pay they recieve, i dont think so.
October 3, 2012 at 10:15 am
I thought it was very one sided. My husband and I are going on eclipse in November and are so looking forward to it but it has made us realise how hard these people work to make peoples holiday happy. We both enjoy crusing and always pay our gratuities. so maybe the people who complain about paying gratiities should think again.
Cannot wait to hear what celebrity have to say.
October 3, 2012 at 10:16 am
This lady/company also did an incredibly damaging report on the use of Volunteers in the NHS (Of which I am one). Totally one sided, emphasis on the bad and almost lost a number of staff their jobs.
What is more, when I complained – all I got was Customer Services sanitised PC answers.
Maybe Despatches should do an expose on the total lack of accountability of their programmes and the fact that you can never discuss the issues raised with the presenter/producer etc etc.
I have only been on two cruises and we have spoken with cabin staff and yes they work extremely hard for what in the UK is undoubtedly very low wages – but its all relative – why not compare their wages to Scandinavian countries – where the UK wage rates look very poor, or their home countries where the opposite applies.
October 3, 2012 at 10:18 am
Seemed to have it in for Celebrity for some reason. Yes when they first start they have to pay for uniform etc but that is a one off after that the money is their own. We have a friend who has worked the cruise ships for a number of years and owns a house in the States as well as one in Thailand he openly admits that he is very well off and couldn’t afford a land based job. If working conditions were so bad why do we meet the same staff again on a lot of our cruises.
October 3, 2012 at 10:18 am
It was one-sided, as are all dispatches.
The pay is pretty much a none-concern due to where most of the staff are from although the agency the reporter from the UK used clearly needs cleaning up to clarify pay and contracts on-board MUST be signed before beginning work.
What the program did show however is the excessively long hours with no holiday staff are expected to deal with. That for me was the issue.
80-100 hours a week with no holiday? Make that the European maximum standard of 48 hours, hire some more staff and seem less like a slave ship.
I’ve been on a two week cruise every year for the past four and am less eager to do so knowing this.
October 3, 2012 at 10:23 am
I agree with Sue. We’ve been on over 20 cruises, and yes, it’s a hard job. But no different to any other hotel. Go into many hotels in this country of a certain size, and you will find a large percentage of staff come from poorer countries. They earn enough here to send money home to sustain their families. And don’t think all hotels here adhere to the rules regarding minimum wage. They’ve been caught out again and again. We’ve spoken to many members of the crew, from cabin stewards to bar staff to shop workers to general cleaners. The vast majority are on their 3rd,4th, or even more contracts. Tells its own story really. Trying to make a one size fits all world really doesn’t work, and it’s naive to think it ever could. I know that if you tried to take away the job of some of the people I’ve spoken to, you’d be in for a fight. The industry will live or die depending on profit margins, and as Sue says, if the pay structures were altered,fares would rocket and the industry would collapse. Losers all round.
October 3, 2012 at 10:15 pm
I disagree with you about your thoughts.
Many get a job on a cruise line because there are no jobs where they live and because of the cultural structure, they have more family pressure on them to contribute to the family than I ever had as a westerner. Some of the crew are working simply to put their younger siblings through school … I personally don’t know anyone where I live that has done that.
Also what seems to be lost here in your comparison wtih working in a land based hotel, those who work in a land based hotel don’t necessarily work 14 hour days and nor are they on call when they are off duty and furthermore, they go home to their families at night.
And yes the one thing I would agree with is that those crew who have a job do rely on keeping that job to support their family as there is no other job for them back home. o
I’m sure that many crew would not want to be away from their families if jobs were plentiful where they live. Would you if the shoe was on your foot ??
October 3, 2012 at 10:24 am
I watched it too. Very one sided and unbelievable in many ways. Especially being on such low wages yet being able to pay a co worker to help them! Come on Despatches, more research please!
October 3, 2012 at 10:24 am
An interesting insight but would merit a much lengthier and more complete programme. Opinion is mixed with some having the view that working conditions are fine because it’s better than they would get in their own country and other feeling uneasy.
October 3, 2012 at 10:24 am
Yes, I watched and already understood some of the concerns of the crew, as they often talk about them. I do admire cruise ship staff for their absolute dedication to their constant hard work. Although the hours are long the work is not generally particularly heavy or arduous. Housework is something we all do. The pay is worth it from their point of view; if they could do better home, most would. It is a young person’s job and they do have a lot of fun. Work hard, party hard is what they often tell me! I think the documentary is important and we all should be aware that condition for workers all over the world and in all types of work can be less than ideal with low pay. Always give your tips, in cash, directly to those who have looked after you. That way, the cruise ships might be further persuaded to pay a decent minimum wage and not expect us to pay for staff with our tips. Always ask for tips to be removed from your final bill. It gets a sour look from the reception staff, but I tip my waiters and cabin staff individually. This doesnt help staff not directly working with customers, but that is an issue I struggle with and havent found a solution for yet. I may start handing out tips at random to painters and corridor cleaners.
October 3, 2012 at 10:25 am
Totally agree with Danny and Sue. This is typical of Channel 4 ‘undercover’ documentaries, always focusing on the negatives but never show the positives – and why – because positives don’t give them the viewing figures.
I have been on many cruises and yes we all know that the crew always welcome a tip and many of them deserve it. I have also witnessed them partying and enjoying themselves. Despite Channel 4′s claims, they ‘do’ get time off. I have met with crew ashore and shared a drink with them when they were off duty and all I heard were positives about their life on board.
I too welcome Celebrity’s response and as a ‘Celebrity customer’ I hope they also get the airtime to put their side of this underwhelming report.
October 3, 2012 at 10:30 am
I always knew that the crew were not paid a huge amount of money, but as you say, they are paid considerably more than they would be in many jobs back at their home, I do feel that sometimes they give you a bit of a sob story “oh I only see my children once every 3 or 6 months” maybe hoping you’ll give them a bigger tip (old cynic that I am!), but I tend to pay my gratuities up front and give extra to those I feel have made my holiday more enjoyable. It was very one sided and a shame that it was only one ship, I can’t see the cruise line owners (RCI ??) breaking any laws, although you can understand big business trying to get away with as much as possible – you get that in all walks of life – would I be prepared to pay an extra @£50/week if I knew it would go on wages?? probably not, the old cynic again, I doubt it would go on wages, I’ll stick to tipping those I feel have worked for ‘me’ during my holiday.
October 3, 2012 at 10:31 am
Well i watched the program and agree with what the undercover guy was saying.
I have travelled on more than 12 cruises with different cruise companies and are going on celebrity eclipse in november!!
we have always mixed well with the very hardworking crew and have had a lot of feedback from all nationalities and workforce.
The main problems are the hours work for low pay and having to rely on tips which i think is bang out of order!.
Most of the cabin boys complain that they are given to many rooms to clean in such a short time, and that is why they have to pay another cabin member to help them finish the job in hand.
This is out of order as they should not be given workloads that cannot be reached in the time given.
The other issue is time out with these guys, we have spoken to lots of crew regarding leave and lots have not been given the chance t0 take leave let alone a few hours off for a break.
A lot of them are on 9 month contracts and taken not one holiday, working 7 days a week!!
When they do get a break, it is spent sleeping as they are exhausted from the long heavy workload.
October 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm
I don’t understand the comment about having to pay “another Cabin member to help them finish the job” If one Cabin Steward Hasn’t got time why would another have the time to help them? And every cruise we have been on (Admittedly thus far we have only used Royal Carribbean and P&O for all our cruises) we always see seemingly happy members of the crew going ashore. There is no doubt they work very hard and long hours as do I, Most people on the minimum wage have to pay Tax, Council Tax, Food, Rent, Gas, electricty, water, cartax, insure and buy the fuel to run their car, T.V. licence, Etc. Etc. Ect. If the conditions are so bad why do they come back year after year?
October 3, 2012 at 10:31 am
There are some pretty scandalous practices by the cruise companies though. eg. payment for uniforms.
It could have been a bit more balanced though I agree, but the way crusing is funded using tips to make up pay is hardly a 21st century advert for progress in creating a fair situation for the customer and the staff who serve. In the end the customer will suffer.
October 3, 2012 at 10:33 am
I agree with every word you said. When is the media and TV in particular going to start giving balanced views in both documentaries and in TV news reports.
The number of times that a blatantly one sided view is presented in these types of programme is quite alarming. It is almost as if the producers have decided on the ‘angle’, before the event, in fact there is actually no story to this cruise line investigation. I have spoken to many crew members on cruise ships, ‘off the record’ and most are delighted with the life style and income that it provides them with.
An absolutely terrible documentary by Channel 4.
October 3, 2012 at 10:40 am
Watched the program.Have never seen anything so biased against the cruise industry.I was fifty years at sea.Yes 50.The last twenty years working for a major cruise line based in miami.Some of what they said was true,ie kick backs to agents etc in home countries.UK being no exception I was by the way in the hotel department.Retiring as a hotel director.Also employees such as room stewards/stewardessess often employed helpers as a side job.They could/can afford to do this due to the excellent tips which are garanteed.Passengers paying tips up front in onboard accounts.Three thousand dollars plus per month is pretty average.Most employees are from third world countries.So this gives them a very high lifestyle in home countries.The englishman who did the exposy.Could not have been a worse choice.In my experience in almost all cases english recruits never worked out.As we saw he lasted five weeks.Couldnt handle the terms of employment which he would have known prior to hiring.I can vividly remember when i was a bar manager being sent six english barstaff.They were all gone in six weeks.The program should have checked the high numbers of long term employees.Who are very happy with there lot.
October 3, 2012 at 10:46 am
If Cruise ships were British registered, our excellent British Merchant Seamen could man the ships on their existing pay and conditions. Their minimum earnings below decks would be around £30,00 a year plus accommodation and extras, they would work about 2 months on and one month off (Paid). I believe our Seamen are also the only remaining part of the British work force who are still eligible for a tax-free income when working for long periods outside of British waters. I guess this would take the average cruise price to more than £20,000 leaving the industry all but dead in the water. Foreign registration and foreign workers are the only reason the cruise industry is so successful.
October 3, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Dave, P&O, Cunard and Saga were all once British registered but you barely saw a British waiter, cleaner, steward etc among the crew. Even then they went for the cheapest. Meanwhile Costa/AIDA are Italian registered while Holland America Line are Dutch and it’s exactly the same. Our cabin steward on Norwegian Jade told us it was a happier ship with more pride in the work since transferring from the US flagged Pride of Hawai’i.
October 3, 2012 at 10:30 pm
There are cruise ships that are registered in the UK … but UK labour laws don’t apply. Eg, P&O Australia’s ships are registered in the UK but the wages and conditions are far from what you’d find for someone working in a land based hotel in the UK or Australia.
There are international regs that govern the pay and conditions on board ships.
October 3, 2012 at 10:49 am
I have done over 40 cruises over the years and have seen noticable changes for staff. Maybe years ago I would have thought OH poor staff, but now!! I have seen filopino’s (who are lovely people) walk on the ship trying to carry 40 in TV’s between them. They all have the latest electronic gadgets up to date mobiles, I still have the little Nokia. My little cabin boy laughed when he saw it. One Guy told me he had just about enough money to buy a piece of land back home.
What about our own people working in contruction,working out in all weathers working soaking wet. Postmen up at the crack of dawn in all weathers. Farmer workers?? They maybe get more money per hour but the cost of living here is greater. So who is the better off I ask???
Yes I agree the people that work on cruise ship work LONG hours but I dont think they do too badly out of it. Lets face it its not HARD work. They always have time for a chat as I love to hear about thier lives and family They also get a whole three months a year off a year, and they are desperate to get back on to the cruise liners. Now you ask yourself WHY???? If the are treated so badly.
Without them we could not have a brilliant holiday but without us they would not be there in the first place.
October 3, 2012 at 10:49 am
The cruise companies make big money from exploiting the poor as many companies do. I suspected that cruise workers were being exploited and I personally feel bad about it as I do when buying all the products available to us from parts of the world where living & working conditions are appalling. We are living in privilege because a lot of the world is not. Places such as India & China are having their Industrial Revolution, like we did in Victorian times and the west is in recession. The wind of change is blowing and I can see rough seas ahead.
October 3, 2012 at 10:50 am
Totally agree but Ch 4 always do things one sided and don’t forget no-one forces thses people into these jobs and every crew member we have met and we have cruised a lot seem to be happy with their jobs
October 3, 2012 at 10:52 am
I watched the Dispatches programme and like yourself found it one sided. I think that comparing wages with uk minimum wage is unrealistic but my concern was for the working conditions of having no day off, sometimes for a whole contract. As a frequent cruiser on small ships I have often met staff in ports of call enjoying some time ashore.
Can anyone tell me if there is a way of checking relative conditions of employment across the cruise lines
October 3, 2012 at 10:55 am
We watched the program and felt that like many such programs on tv it was very one sided and biased towards one side of a question in this case alleged poor working practices and pay.
Sure the hours are long and the pay may not be generous but it is usually considerably more than the staff can earn in their country of origin, if they can get a job back there.
All the staff we have met on our various cruises have been reasonably happy in their work OK they are often tired and rely on tips to enhance their wages but when you ask them if they want to go home to get a job the answer is usually a resounding NO i.e.” not until I have made enough money to set myself up in
some sort of business”
Ambition is a great motivator!!
October 3, 2012 at 10:55 am
I just returned from a cruise and due to my previous career as a journalist I always want to find out how things work. Unfortunately, on questioning several employees I came to the same conclusion as the Programme. The issue of “tipping” and how effective it is should have been looked into more on the programme. I and my family were made to feel very very uncomfortable and sometimes tipped because the waiter/waitress/attendant gave us their life story and you felt guilty not leaving anything despite a 15% charge being levied on everything you bought! Proper wages should be paid and this should be put into the price of the cruise, i.e doing away with the problem of “how much do I tip”. I will be making a complaint to the company, particularly as to the way people in the U.K are made to pay such crazy prices and the Italians who boarded the ship in Rome paid a mere £250 – £300 for the whole week! We couldnt get near a table to sit to eat or the swimming pool or jacuzzi! Wasted our money and should have booked to go to a 5* hotel in any Med country and would have had a better time. Shame really as it was my first cruise and probably my last.
October 3, 2012 at 1:56 pm
I agree with you . Staff should be paid by the company. I am just back from a 14 night cruise with RCI and the tips from my husband and I came to almost 400 pounds. 150 of that going to the cabin steward.She had 10 cabins to clean and if everyone paid what they were asked to it amounts to 1500 p0unds for 2 weeks. Not bad for 2 weeks work.Most people I met find tipping embarrassing and would rather it was included in the price.
October 3, 2012 at 10:55 am
My gripe is why do the cruise companies charge your onboard account $8 to $10 a day per person to make up their wages, why don’t they just put it on the price of the cruise to start with so you know the cost of the fare before you embark.If I book a hotel I pay the price advertised not plus a daily surcharge to supplement the staffs wages.
October 3, 2012 at 10:57 am
I agree. The programme was very one-sided and biased. Go into any shop, hotel, holiday village, manufacturing business, anywhere in the world and you will also find disgruntled staff ready to speak out (in confidence of course) against their pay and conditions.If you ask them to put their points to their employers then it would more likely be a very different story!In some of the third world countries the conditions can be awful, yet we are happy to turn a blind eye. In my experience most of the crew I have spoken to are very happy with their jobs and the associated lifestyle – free travel to wonderful locations, good food and accommodation provided, the opportunity to send money home to their families, and wouldn’t change it. Of course, if you ask anyone “would you like to work shorter hours and earn more money”, who is going to say no? This programme was just trying to be sensationalist and to make an attack on a soft target by showing an unbalanced view of the cruise industry, but then this is exactly what we have come to expect from much of the media, especially Channel 4.
October 3, 2012 at 10:59 am
An insight it was not. A programme looking for problems. In any job there are disgrntled folk but everyone joing a ship knows exactly what the pay and conditions of contract are. You get to see the world, receive full board and lodging, get some pay for what is long hours but easy work. Where can you have a job each week and save everything you earn? If you are good at the job and have a personality to suit (which the reporter did not have) your tips increase from satisfied clients. I know people who earn hundreds a day! Attitude and adaptability must be right…his was not.
Why must we put down the cruise industry? It’s the most expanding, growing industry on the planet the last decade so why spoil it? You want fares to rise? Brits do a lot of moaning for the sake of it. Mountains out of mole hills comes to mind. At the end of the day people have a choice. You don’t like it then leave it. I joined the armed forces when i was young – did I like it? No so I left, it wasn’t for me. Do I then accuse the armed forces of underpaying, horrible conditions? There are so many layabouts on the dole perhaps we should send them on cruise jobs as work experience? What about all the other jobs on board? There is a wealth of experiences of work to be tapped into on a cruise ship. One good lesson is meeting and dealing with the public. It’s an opportunity not a moaners world.
October 3, 2012 at 3:14 pm
Whilst agreeing that some of the programme was biased it did raise many points that need answering. why do cruise lines chose to operate under a flag of convenience? Is it purely to avoid the employment laws re pay and conditions most civilised societies demand? I have been informed on many cruises that the tips paid up front are shared amongst all none uniformed staff and not to top up the meagre basic pay. This was clearly a lie, so why tell it. The tone of many letters opposing the program adopt the attitude that staff are recruited from very poor countries and should be grateful. No doubt many of the people making these comments worked in situations where their rights and conditions had been won by unions or professional bodies. I note that you did not last in the army very long. I am not surprised! I was a regular soldier, and was on active service in Malaya. We complained that the Gurkhas who were serving with us received much less pay that we did. We were given the same excuse. ” It was much more than they could earn at home”. Happily this situation has largely been resolved. The cruise lines have much to answer for. Pay people a proper wage and proper treatment. Put up prices and cut dividend payment to pay for it. If the cruise industry fails, tough luck. Re job losses, it was said that to stop slavery and children working down mines, would cost jobs. Somehow the world has survived. Your last sentence is not worthy of comment
October 3, 2012 at 11:02 am
Everyone on a ship works 7 days a week, even the Captain and his officers but they all get chunks of time off, waiters may work 9 month contracts but they then get three months off, if you calculate their wages/tips as an annual amount it works out similar to ‘normal’ jobs. All the ships I have been on many of the waiters and stewards have been doing it for years, no one makes them work on a cruise!
October 3, 2012 at 11:02 am
My wife and I watched the programme and also thought it was very one-sided. We have been on many cruises of different companies and where ever possible talk to the crew about their families and their time on board. Most say that they are there because they cannot achieve the same level of pay in their own countries and can give their family a better standard of living than if they had a job at home. You have only got to go ashore to see the crew clustered around the free wi-fi areas with their laptops contacting home. They can’t be too badly paid to be able to buy a laptop. Also the cabin stewards do a fantastic job but when they have finished their quota of cabins they are presuamably free to do what they want until the evening clean and bed turn down. We have never seen any evidence of more than one steward cleaning cabins, it is always the same one. also the undercover reporter said he had to pay for his uniform, which on 5 weeks pay may seem expensive, but spread over a normal 9 month contract (which most staff seem to have) it will be very little per month. It has certainly not deterred us from cruising.
October 3, 2012 at 11:05 am
The only strife on the ocean wave here is the undercover report!
October 3, 2012 at 11:13 am
my wife and i often cruise with saga and always make a point of talking on a personal basis with our cabin staff ans waiters
they talk well of their employers and one waited george has been with saga for number of years and is reguarlly sending money home to his wife and family back home in manilla
in my working time i made regular trips to manilla and even in the late 70s and 80s i was told that one of the goals of many people was to get emplyment with a cruise line
they do work long hours and very hard but if things were so bad would they re sign on year on year
October 3, 2012 at 11:19 am
I too watched the programme and generally agree with Sue’s comments but there were plenty of valid points such as ‘illegal’ fees paid by workers to third parties to get jobs in the first place.
One thing it didn’t cover was the way passengers treat staff. In my experience, we Brits are far better in that respect than many other nationalities, seeing them as equals doing a job we value rather than slaves or third-class human beings – they were just unfortunate enough to be born in poor parts of the world.
October 3, 2012 at 11:21 am
Well Sue I can see where your loyalties lie…..with the Cruise industry. Try looking it through the eyes of a lowly paid person onboard running ragged to make a decent wage. Yes Celebrity state they make up the wages to the ‘set level’ however howmany times is this done before they get rid of him. We saw crewmembers paying other crew to assist them in doing their work because the workload was too heavy, we saw people in the laundry earning £1.50 an hour, we heard of crew working 93 hrs plus to do their working (Including training) If anyone is naïve its you. Sorry but training is a necessity, if someone is needing trained then they should not be made to work outside their scheduled hours to do it without being paid.
If a ship works within the European waters its crew should be paid accordingly, not piecemeal just so they can be exploited. I hope that this investigation goes further and that legislation is brought in to empower the crew.
Within the maritime world there are different organisations(Numast, Nautical etc) that are fighting to ensure that rights of crew members are safeguard, this type of thing should not be found on such as a Celebrity ship, p.s. yes a disgruntled crewman from RCL was heard but just in case you forgot they are the same parent company.
Do you have any work experience onboard a cruise ship or are you living in a fluffy cloud and one of those lucky enough to just ‘cruise it’ No what what was shown through the program has hopefully opened the eyes of passengers to make them aware of what happens behind the scenes.
No Im afraid that the program did what it was supposed to do… Show us the conditions that the lower deck crews have to work in
October 3, 2012 at 11:25 am
Have to agree with Danny – my husband and I found the programme very one sided and we feel that Celebrity treat staff better than other companies. We have cruised many times with various copmanies and have found that talking to the staff Celebrity are better to work for than most.
This type of work doesn’t suit everyone but most of the working conditions are the same at sea or on land ie 5 star hotels.
Await Celebrity response!
October 3, 2012 at 11:26 am
I worked onboard Vistafjord, one of the Cunard ships, and had a ball! We got paid good money, got to see the world, and as you quite rightly say, all food and accommodation is included! I would do it all over again.
October 3, 2012 at 11:30 am
as an ex submariner, the crew live in luxury. On Royal Navy ships it was normal for the laundry to be run by Chinese, they ate slept and worked in the same Mess (room) no serving seamen ever went into their Mess. The service they provided was excellent, they served onboard for the commision of the ship about 2 – 21/2 years, very rarely going ashore let alone going home, and yet they all seemed very happy, laughter always heard from their Messdeck. They did have their own cooking facilities and food supplies.
By comparison the cruise expose was a farce, no Press gangs today.
October 3, 2012 at 11:33 am
I agree with your observations. There is little doubt that the company sails under another flag to get around employment laws in the EU. However did the undercover reporter expect to receive more pay just because he was English when it is common knowledge that staff on cruises are not paid well and have to reply upon tips. The question has to be, do you pay the current staff better wages and pass this on to the passengers or keep the present wage structure and allow them to send by their standards vast sums of money home to their families?
October 3, 2012 at 11:33 am
Yes I entirely agree with you – CH 4 Despatches is notorious for presenting unbalanced arguments and on this occasion their programme was particularly weak!
October 3, 2012 at 11:38 am
I watched Dispatches too and felt that they set out determined to show the cruise industry in a bad light. I have been on two cruises with Royal Carribean and made a point of getting to know the staff and asking them about the work conditions. I discovered that the conditions are bad on comparison to UK work. But all the staff accepted that and chose to dwell on the fact that if they stayed home they would have either worse jobs or no job. Also if you add up the free accomodation, uniform, food, crew entertainment etc on top of the low wage it then brings the whole benefits package more in line with a UK job. I think the cruise companies do the best they can in the circumstances and the rest is up to us as customers. Personally if my husband and I are happy with the service we get from our stateroom attendants and waiters then we make a point of tipping way above the recommended amount. We actually budget for that before we go on the cruise.
October 3, 2012 at 11:44 am
I agree with your comments…I do think that if they are working 24/7, then some time off is necessary. Having said that, you do see crew members going ashore at various ports. The comparison with uk working law and pay is ridiculous. Do we all purchase good made in India, China and other countries ? where low pay is the norm.
Do we all stop buying such goods ? It would surely put millions of people out of work. Likewise in the Cruise industry. Prices would rise. Cruise lines would stop building new ships. Crew numbers would fall……..Channel 4 need to do their homework….It is not as simple as their programme suggest.
October 3, 2012 at 11:47 am
Having just returned from a cruise on Celebrity Silhouette fantastic) I feel your responce to the Channel 4 prog very balanced.
October 3, 2012 at 11:53 am
I felt the whole programme was very one sided and they had produced the programme only to highlight their opinions. I agree why keep harping on about pay and conditions in the UK are they now going to do a programme about pay and conditions for staff in the UK hotel industry. I would like to know why it took the cabin attendant half an hour to clean the bathroom what was she doing and what jobs did the other people do that came to help them clean the cabins, they were obviously happy to give up their free time to help.
October 3, 2012 at 11:59 am
We watched the programme and, as cruisers who pay all gratuities and extra where deserved, we want to know if all lines operate the same system of using tips as part of the pay structure. We will be asking on our trip in December( not on Celebrity) We understood that tips were shared among all staff including the ” backstairs” people we never see.It was one-sided and we look forward to Celebrity’s reply.
October 3, 2012 at 6:51 pm
I too am left with the same thoughts as Pat and Mike and a few others. Are things better for the staff on other lines? Celebrity twice I have to say I have yet to talk to a member of staff who was going ashore when I asked, and it is a question I ask often. I didn’t watch the programme particularly carefully but think it was on changeover day that the staff were having to pay other staff in order to get through the work neccessary on that day, although I was quite puzzled as to were this staff came from as everyone is surely flat out on changeover day. I was certainly very aware on our Celebrity cruises that the cabin steward was always around and seemed to be busy for a very long day. i.e we saw him at breakfast time and when we retired in the evening, and several different times during the day. I find some of the comments on here very disappointing, I am sure they are similar to the arguments used to justify sending children down mines and up chimneys not so very long ago. I am not comfortable taking advantage of the disadvantaged. I have cruised with other companies and have seen more staff ashore. Having cruised Celebrity twice recently, my conclusion is the cabins are excellent, the food is very good but the Solstice at least is too big and rather soulless. I am probably going to revert to the smaller ships in the hopes that their staff are better treated. I would like to know how Fred Olsen and P and O treat their staff.
October 3, 2012 at 12:16 pm
I totally agree, it was SO onesided. I know the pay seems to us to be low but not all countries subscribe to minimum wage and other cultures are only too happy to have a job in reasonably comfortable surroundings. I appreciate the work is very hard, you can’t get away from that and many Brits aren’t prepared to work that way. You have to consider what these low paid workers would do if the opportunity to work for Celebrity was taken away from them??? It’s a bit like scenario of all the rubbish We ship over to India! At first glimpse it is totally appalling to me – but at least it allows those poor and unfortunate people to earn some money to keep their families alive. A huge moral dilemma I guess. My Husband and I always do our best and appreciate the staff who look after us on our cruises. That’s the all we can do. If we boycotted the cruise lines, these folks would have no work at all.
October 3, 2012 at 12:20 pm
The programme appeared one sided and poorly edited but nevertheless did raise some interesting points: (1) If the allegations are true in full or part, then one employee on each ship needs to be assigned to ensure that crew members do not work excessive hours. Balancing work and training and rest is essential in order to ensure that each crew member can function effectively during an on-board emergency and (2) why would a guest pre-pay their gratuities when we now know that these gratuities are allegedly used by Celebrity to offset its own wage bill? Pre-paid gratuities by their very nature are recorded and assigned to the relevant staff for the Stateroom and Dining option. It seems a far better system for guests to avoid paying pre-paid gratuities and instead generously TIP the relevant crew members. The company will have no record of what has been received by the crew member and will have to pay out the wages as contracted rather than making up a balance. I am disappointed in the programme focussing on the Eclipse in this way as it besmirches the excellent crew throughout the ship and the quality of the product and the brand. But I am also disappointed in Celebrity leaving themselves wide open to such adverse publicity. When you have a top brand you need to invest in brand protection strategies. All in all it seems that Celebrity are yet to learn how to protect and thereby enhance their brand. We are on the Constellation in a few weeks time, having sailed on the stunning Eclipse two months ago. We do not expect problems as the onboard experience is excellent, but we do expect people to be talking about the programme and that is quite sad.
October 3, 2012 at 12:21 pm
I watched it and it was much as I expected, I know from experience that you can hire a skilled virtual assistant from the Philippines to work for you full time (40hrs p/w) for about $50 which is just £1.25 per day. I had wondered if they were being paid in their own contries wage structure when I met some onboard my cruises so I asked and I was told “no we are all paid the same” which was good to know.
I have noticed that there is a massive lack of UK staff which is probably due to the wages received being as how £6+ p/hr is the minimum UK wage or perhaps there is some other reason Brits dont want this work, but it does bring to the for that every time I stay in any hotel in the UK again there are not many UK workers.
I think it was wrong to use our minimum wage in the program and I know from my talks with staff on my cruises that many come back to these contracts time and time again so surely they can not feel like they are being abused.
I say us cruisers should be glad for the work these crew members do and always with a smile, I did not see our Paul Mills smiling much and I doubt I would want to work these conditions.
So how about we appreciate the cruise staff and show it with our tips.
October 3, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Watched the programme which was set to an unfair premise – that the crew of a cruise-liner should have conditions of service similar to those enjoyed uner English Employment Law. Sure the English reporter found it tough – he’s a reporter and not used to such hours of work and physical endurance. Most crew members on most ships come from Asian and Far East countries where conditions are no where near those enjoyed by English workers. We have been on a number of cruises with different cruise-lines including Celebrity – we have never found crew to be anything other than friendly and hard-working – I cannot remember any one crew member complaining about their lot. Many acknowledge that they are better able to provide for their families back home then if they were employed in their own country. They acknowledge that they work hard but most crews get days or part-days ashore when in port. Many crew members are envied in their own countries – they enjoy the esteem from their peers in their own country that such a job provides for them. Tazeen Ahmed’s myoptic view was appalling as well as naive. The cruise industry does not need such a biased view – sure the cruise companies are out to make money but the industry does provide jobs on a global scale and they provide opportunities for a wide variety of holiday makers.
October 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm
I agree. The points you made are valid and the program was too one sided. It was as if they had set out to portray the negative and not the positive in order to have a program. I should know. I was a Purser and Chief Purser with Cunard for 32 years, 5 years as Chief Purser & Financial Controller Royal Caribbean, and a total of 46 years at sea in passenger and cruise ships. I look forward to Celebrity’s response which is part of the Royal Caribbean International Group.
October 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm
Yes i did watch said film. i was discusted at the wages being paid and the hours worked. i saw it flew the maltese flag where ever its registered ,i think its actually an american company? very clever to fly flag of another much less wealthy country. No one should be working for such pay and away from home for 10 months a year ,there is no excuse.If people can afford a cruise ,let it be ,but not subsidized by the crew joyce.
October 3, 2012 at 12:30 pm
The crew wages are low which-ever way you look at it, why should they have to rely an the charity of the passengers to make up their wages? The passengers pay a European or American based fare for their holiday and pay high prices for any drinks in the bar, comparable to the prices in bars and pubs in the UK. It doesn’t matter what the level of pay is in a persons home country, the cruise companies register their ships in foreign thirdworld countries purely to get around the laws in developed countries which govern the rights of working people. Most of the passengers on the ships come from countries which have a proper minimum living wage.
October 3, 2012 at 12:34 pm
I too felt it was very one-sided, we went cruising on “the azura” 2010, we as expected had a fantastic holiday. we spoke with staff, all whom we knew worked hard but all appeared very happy Majority were from Goa. our cabin steward was very generously tipped by ourselves and im sure the other guests did the same, ( around 3000 people on board. I have been a nurse most of my working career, i now work with people who have drug/alcohol addictions and are homeless. I have never been given a “tip”, i too work very long hours in a job which has very little “ups” and lots of “downs”. We all have a choice in life, these workers dont seem to be complaining but appear happy to have a job and be able to provide for their families.
As usual, these reporters feel the need to complain on their behalf, causing unrest and trouble for the workers they leave behind. Also, i find it hard to believe when most of the cruise ship employs staff from poor countries how they would employ probably the only british m.o.s onboard, knowing they would question, complain and most likely leave???
October 3, 2012 at 6:28 pm
Im sorry but your annual wage for a nurse bares no reflection upon the wages being quoted in this program. i also worked for an Emergency service but I dont expect thanks, I am happy enough going home just having saved someones life. The fact that these crew members in the whole are paid a low wage which is made up of tips that they might earn. It should be a case of a decent wage that is given with a tip being a reward for doing a very good standard of work.
October 9, 2012 at 6:16 pm
Did i say i deserved or wanted a tip, Don think i did.Of course i wouldnt expect one. We are all very aware of that these guys get a very low rate of pay. what i did say that for them to be tipped 40+ from each cabin adds up to a lot of money on top of wages (azura) and to return home with this amount im sure is very helpful indeed. also i said None of the staff on board seemed unhappy, we saw lots of them offshore buying gifts, spending money and thoroughly enjoying themselves, they also spent a lot of money on gifts onboard. please if you make a comment get it right, dont play the martyr by saying you are happy just to save a life. work for free then!!! doubt it, we each do what we can to get by including the staff of these cruise ships.
October 3, 2012 at 12:39 pm
VERY one sided. I have been on many Celebrity cruises and spoken to 100′s of staff and they nealy all said Celebrity, Azamara and RC were great and the better lines to work for. I have never seen more than my allotted cabin attendant cleaning my room.
Tips are massive on cruise ships and a lt are given in cash.
October 3, 2012 at 12:40 pm
I was very interested to watch this programme as I had spoken to my cabin steward about the conditions on board ship. The only thing that really upset him was the length of his contract away from home. (10 months to a year) This saddened him as he was missing the chance to see his children growing up but he was working to provide for them. The wages and conditions are grim to our western eyes and the lack of a proper contract is something that until recently was also common here in the UK! He seemed quite content and even enjoyed working on the ship.
October 3, 2012 at 12:43 pm
It was a small insight into a subject which arouses much discussion amongst the cruising population. It is sad that the crew have to rely on tips to make up their money. Tipping is sadly an American habit, and not common to the British passengers. To tip is generally to recognise that you have had good service, but it is now expected that you pay your gratuities up front before you receive the service, which is the wrong way round. It is a subject that really warrants investigation to try and find a solution in order that the crew can receive fair recompense for their services.
October 3, 2012 at 12:52 pm
I along with my husband were disturbed by the programme having just got back off Celebrity Silhouette. We are sure these practices go on with probably all cruise company’s and it was a sham it looked like it was just Celebrity (as this was who he went undercover on)
The worst part for us was the amount of money some of the work force had paid to Dodgy Agents to safe guard themselves a job. The industry must know this goes on and should be stopped immediately. We always give staff a good tip, but thought this was an extra, but sounds like it is part of the final pay packet, whether they do a good job or not.
October 3, 2012 at 12:52 pm
I watched the programme after having my first ever cruise this year. We went with NCL who charge a service fee on top of the cruise price which is supposed to be shared out between all staff. I was not happy about paying this so didn’t leave any extra tips which we would have like to. The programme made me feel more guilty than I already did and I wonder if NCL actually do share out the service charge between ALL their staff?
October 3, 2012 at 12:59 pm
I totally agree with your blog comments. Whilst it is terrible that the world in which we live is an unequal place , is it really fair to target the cruise industry and suggest that they are any worse than countless other industry sectors for taking advantage of workers from less developed countries ?
As you say, comparing the UK minimum wage with the wages on board ship, without looking at the money a person from the Phillipines or India would receive if working in his/her own country, is plain daft – the whole argument was flimsy.
On the subject of the “reporter” (I use the term loosely) Tazeen, why didn’t someone on the production team inform her that the correct title of someone who “cleans your cabin” is a ‘room steward’ – not a ‘cleaner’ ! A small point admittedly but yet another example of the lack of research which peppered the documentary.
The cruise industry is not perfect, yes it could do better but if you’re going to do a serious expose, try hiring a couple of journalists who are prepared to really do the subject justice and present a balanced, fair and properly researched documentary – not this nonsense.
Our entire family watched this programme and I think my husband summed it up perfectly at the end :”Hmmph – is that it? Is that all they managed to uncover – well, what a waste of time!”
October 3, 2012 at 12:59 pm
Wholeheartedly agree with your comments Sue Bryant. Inaccurate information on many points by channel 4. I´ve always thought that the Cruise Line use our tips to make up the staff salaries, instead of an “extra” for them. So we´re subsidising the Companies are we? Will be reviewing the tipping procedure on the next cruise.
October 3, 2012 at 1:02 pm
One point I found annoying was that Celebrity would make up any shortfall if the tips weren’t enough. This sounds to me as if the staff who do exceptional work for us, and are tipped more, do not get this benefit and all staff, good and bad, can get the same amount of wage. It makes me wonder if we should tip at all if the cruise line are going to top the wage up to the minimum requirements
October 3, 2012 at 1:03 pm
Totally agree with everything you say Sue, i have been on many a cruise ship and never once heard of any complaints from the crew, only praise about how they enjoy there job yes they miss there family back home but by working the long hours and for 10 month shifts they are as you say able to give there families back home a far better life style. have always spoken to different varieties of crew and all seem to go ashore for a few hours every so often and even have there own bar on the ship. No you wouldn’t get many Brits wanting to work them hours or for that money, unless of coarse the wages were more than they can claim for there social, Housing, child and disability benefits like they seem to want to do back home. and we wonder why everywhere we go it seems to be only foreigners working.
October 3, 2012 at 1:07 pm
I do see that yes, the documentary was one-sided, but also that it highlights several massive issues.
I believe the cruise industry does need to address days off, staff ‘paying’ for their jobs and becoming virtual slaves until they’ve earned enough to either go home, or repay their initial debt, the long hours, and overwork.
Tips are not really optional for guests are they? It certainly wasnt suggested by RCL that they were, but I was really angry to see that wages were being made up by tips. Tips should be on top of a living wage. Maybe cruise lines like RCL, Celebrity, NCL etc should stop demanding tips, start increase fares by the $10-15 per day, and then pay staff the guaranteed wage they would make up anyway. It would be a step in the right direction and mean that any actual tips would be genuinely a bonus for staff. I was disgusted that they are used to make up guaranteed wages, and not a reward for staff going the extra mile.
Yes, it has actually put me off going on another cruise, so until I see a decent response from the major cruise lines, I’m land based.
October 3, 2012 at 1:14 pm
I think it is wrong that tips are used as wages and the company only pay wages if tips are insufficient. Tips should be in addition to wages not in lieu of. I think it was biased but some good points were raised, some workers having to work for months before earning enough to pay the costs of joining the cruise for example. Working on a ship for months, while sending back cash for your family to live reasonably well, may appear to mean a loss of family life but, as it is followed by a few months at home with family, they probably spend more time with their families than if they were working a 7 day week in the fields at home. A more balanced view is definitely needed.
October 3, 2012 at 1:17 pm
So, just what did you expect from a documentary produced by C4. Having seen others produced by the same people, they are always looking for the negatives and merely want to do a ‘hatchet job’ which they think will attract more viewers.
October 3, 2012 at 1:24 pm
I also thought the same about comparing it to the UK minimum wage. Not only cant most of those people work in the UK, but if they did, they would need to pay for food and lodging as well.
We have been on many cruises (on celbrity) and the staff are often ashore.
October 3, 2012 at 1:34 pm
The author of the article appears uncomfortable with the facts of the Dispatches programme. It is a maritime problem that exists in both cruise ships and cargo vessels. The operators use flags of convenience for one reason only and that is to pay wages and hours that would not be allowed under national law and international treaties.
The fact that it happens in other industries may make the moral dilemma easier to dismiss but is remains unacceptable.
I have been on many cruises and I always treat the crew with dignity and respect. A way to help is not to pay any gratutuities such as the 15% automatically added on charge (on some major cruise lines) and tip staff in cash for good service which is something that I always do.
For the author to talk of the industry collapsing if minimum wage
levels were applied is alarmist in my opinion. The maths do not substantiate this claim.
If the Dispatches programme has made the audience aware of the issue that is no bad thing.
October 3, 2012 at 1:36 pm
What a load of bunkum, Channel 4 should be ashamed of its amateurish one sided sensationalism.
If in fact if a problem does exists it’s nothing to do with English laws or employment practices.
Ch4 is just interfering into another countries business.
October 3, 2012 at 1:38 pm
As a seasoned cruiser I have used Royal Caribean and its subsidary companies since 1977 along with other companies.
The report was undertaken by sheer novices inside 22 min of veiwing and bears no resemblence to life on a cruise ship.On the issue of pay staff are paid very well and this is shown when they go onshore dressed in the latest designer gear some wearing Tag Heuar watches.I have a copy pay slip in front of me dated May 2010 given me by a bar waiter from Eastern Europe stating that the nett wage received for that month was $1962.That person was later fired for appalling behaivour involving drug dealing onboard.This was a person who at home was used to using a bucket in the back yard as a toilet.Onboard this person worked no more than 10 hrs daily.The contract agent was paid $1200 to secure the job and was repayed from wages,and little or no checks were carried out.I only wish I had the time to write a book in proof of the good life these people have.
It is worth a mention that way back in 1982 lead prices for pax was around the same as they are today,and for the continual moaners cabin prices should rise to 2012 levels.It is totally unheard of that RCCLwould treat their staff in the way the programme described on the contary they are the better employers at sea.Staff continually play on passenger emotions to extract more tips from them the sad part is that they dont see it.At some other time i will open the lid on cruising as a passenger stand bye,but meawhile i will defend rigourasly this fine company…….over to you Mr Fraine.
October 3, 2012 at 1:53 pm
I do agree that the programme was one sided and also that the crew are onboard to work, and would have signed up to the contracted hours. However I think that the onus should be on the cruise line to pay the agreed salary and not “top up” using passenger gratuity envelopes. The money collected from these should be divided fairly among the staff that the passengers intended it for as a bonus. I would not use the pre-paid gratuity nor the envelopes in future and give any tips direct to the staff. That way they would get their contracted wage plus a bit extra.
October 3, 2012 at 1:59 pm
I also watched the programme with keen interest having just recently returned from a cruise around the Baltics with RC.
The programme was extremely one sided but what do you expect. If Dispatches wanted to make a fair documentary with equal exposure given to both sides then programme would never have made it on air.
On my cruise I got to know a number of staff on the ship. I can tell you now – nothing that was said to me was for my own benefit or what I wanted to hear. I met a lovely young lady from the US who was using her time on the ship to see some of the world which she would not have been able to do otherwise. I also got to know a few of the cabin stewards who were purely there to make a better life for themselves and their families by sending money home. This also goes for the waiting staff I met. Additionally, one of the Maitre d’s who looked after us had her husband on board. Can’t be that bad then!
It will be interesting to see Celebrity/RC comments if they decide to publicise them.
October 3, 2012 at 2:22 pm
These types of programs only show the negative side and twist things to make better tv. We have been on several cruise with different lines and have always found the crew excellent.
If things are so bad why do so many of them keep coming back and back??
Yes 8 months is a long contract, but to then have 3 months off does not make it seem so bad just a different working pattern
The pay be low by UK standards but should be put in context with incomes they could earn in their own countries and where living costs are a lot less. But with no living costs on board the amount they are able to save at the end of the contracts enables them to live very well in their own countries, and earn much more than they would at home
If the pay did go up so would the cost of a cruise. This would mean many less people cruisng so far fewer jobs available.
The up front costs charged to new crew members on their first contract is to cover the cost of flights to join the ship. This is refunded at the end of the contract and is done to stop people taking the flights then leaving the ship immediately and not work their contract.
Yes I am sure that working on a cruise ship is not for all, but many of the crew I have spoken to have had their moans but keep coming back for more.
October 3, 2012 at 2:29 pm
So people working in restaurants and kitchens all over the world, bus boys, doormen, car valet guys, all seem to be paid such wonderful wages by their employers that they don’t need tips!
This is a fact of life. For the cruise lines it is just that the staff onboard are predominantly from poorer third world countries where they definitely have less choice than the spoilt people in the civilised West, you know, the ones who don’t tip!
Why do Sales people work on commission? To encourage them to do the best job they can to increase their OTE. Somehow this is ok though!
October 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm
The programme did not mention if the English assistant waiter ever received any tips in his hand from any of the guests in his five weeks on board. In my experience of cruising I and plenty of fellow guests have given add hock tips to good friendly staff regardless of wether we have pre paid our tips or not.
I would be surprised if this tax free perk wasn’t the main reason they work on ships. How many would honestly own up to how much extra tips they get in the hand this way?
I don’t think they should pay for the uniform it should be given free like a lot of businesses and only charged if its not returned if they leave.
October 3, 2012 at 5:09 pm
I watched the Dispatches program last night and since I travel on my next cruise in November ,was rather dismayed. However I did feel that it was very one sided. I do usually use the prescribed £12 per day add on to cabin charges, but I also tip the very best of service personally. All my friends who cruise also do the same. Did the researcher mention how much more he gained in hand. No perhaps he was’nt good enough.!
I think they should get their first set of uniform free, as most people who wear uniform for work do. Possibly the cruise lines should look at the practise in certain countries of crew having to get their jobs through agencies who charge fees to get them their employment. This should be stamped out by the industry completely, and it must be perfectly possible for cruise lines to recruit without these terrible middle men
October 3, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Watched the programme and although I did not disagree with what was said I do know that you can make those facts fit any industry even British ones,I can remember objections raised about supermarket employment being “slave labour” I have been cruising for over fifty years and have heard few complaints from our stewards . If the job was so poor why do people return year after year and I am sure the smiles we are greeted by each year are not all put on. It does no harm to be vigilant about working conditions in any employment but let ‘s be realistic.
October 3, 2012 at 7:49 pm
Yep – pick the industries slimiest lawyer and a disgruntled ex-employee and you have the most balanced argument ever. This lawyer is the one who sues cruise lines when you have a slip and fall, so the lowest scum you can find out of the lawyer types, who advertises on the anti-cruise websites.
Anyway, glad to see common sense is prevailing here and that normal level headed people can see right through this sensationalist report. I sailed on ships for 14 years and now manage them. I have never met an unhappy ship board employee in all my time in this career (21 years and counting). Come on dispatches… interview me and I will show you how it REALLY is.. in fact don’t bother.. lets let Panorama do it to get the balance.
October 3, 2012 at 8:01 pm
This was truly awful piece of investigative journalism. I had previously held Despatches in high regard but the team behind this should be charged with bringing their profession into disrepute. I will take a lot of convincing to watch Despatches ever again but if I do I will have serious reservations about believing all that is told. A sad day for the broadcast industry.
October 3, 2012 at 8:02 pm
We have taken approx. 35 cruises over the passed 20 years and have never pepaid gratuities. The Americans know the value of good service and have always encouraged tipping as a way of showing gratitude. Our first cruise, with Cunard, was in the days when the wage was $50 per month plus tips. Our most recent cruise was on the Eclipse and we intend to repeat the experience with Celebrity on the Equinox in 2 days time. If the pay has gone up to $1000 a month our bus boy, waiter and stateroom steward are winning hands down as we always tip them, amount according to standard of service. Watch out for the daily add-on to your account if you don’t prepay the gratuities. On the Ruby Princess we met a couple who thought that the daily gratuity was mandatory and were ecstatic when we told them, on their last day, that they should reclaim the £190 they had paid when settling their account. Their request was recognised and a credit made for the full amount against the final account. We had already done our sums and realised that if all passengers paid the $12 a day on a ship with 3500 passengers, as the Ruby had, the amount collected was $42,000 per day. As we were on 20 day repositioning cruise that totalled $840,000, a nice $7,000 per crew member for 1200 ‘lower deck’ staff. Poorly paid? Don’t think so. On one cruise in the Caribbean our waiter appeared with a very sunburnt face one night as he had spent 1 hour on a jetski. At £10 for 15 minutes that was £40 he had been able to afford and that was 14 years ago!
October 3, 2012 at 8:11 pm
My wife and I are seasoned cruisers and we watched the programme with interest, having always cruised with Celebrity, or their sister company, Royal Caribbean.
Whilst we also found the show harrowing on the surface, what needs to be understood is that the majority, (not all, we accept this), of the crew, are from far poorer countries than the UK, the US, or those in the EU and by working on a cruise ship, the staff receive their lodgings, all food and other benefits, whilst their salaries, which are normally sent home for their family, are sufficient to ensure that their spouses and children are very well catered for and most importantly, (having discussed this with quite a few staff over the years), it allows their children to be educated, which is something that otherwise, would very possibly not be possible?
Yes, they work hard and yes, they work very long hours, with changeover days always being the worst, as stated on the programme, but their way of life is of their own free choosing and there are many jobs far worse than working on a luxury cruise liner?
I have total respect for those who work so hard to make our cruises so truly enjoyable and perhaps, we’ll tip even more next time, but let’s not kid ourselves, with the cruise line making their wages up if tips fall short, you can also bet your bottom dollar that not all tips are declared. After all, I’ve never seen anyone tip in anything other than USD, or GBP!
October 3, 2012 at 8:31 pm
The series Dispatches is designed to be polemical. For a half hour programme, I thought its production values were OK.
I was aware of the long hours but I did not know about the lack of days off which is totally unreasonable and counter-productive. Also the practice of the tips contributing to wages is abhorrent. Tips should be on top of an agreed contract wage. However, I am not necessarily surprised as the major cruise lines are essentially American corporations (wherever they are registered) and therefore follow American corporate practice. It might be a surprise to British people that most American workers have no job security of tenure and no contract.
I find some of the comments on here very naive. Of course the staff you chat to are not going to tell you the grim realities. Keeping you sweet is probably their only way of making decent money, via your tips. I also suspect that staff caught bad-mouthing the company to guests would be chucked off at the next port.
Other comments on needing to incentivise the poor to work hard come as no surprise either. On all the cruises I have been on, the British travellers mostly appear to be Daily Mail / Express types.
As for the blogger, to agree with the programme would be very much biting the hand that feeds. Travel journalists, freelance or otherwise, are always in thrall to the industry.
Personally I would much rather pay more for my cruise than support these working conditions. Does anyone know if there are any lines with ethical employment practices? I’ve only travelled on the major lines (Princess, P&O, RC, NCL and Celebrity) who I suspect are all pretty much the same.
I also look forward to the formal response from Celebrity.
October 3, 2012 at 8:57 pm
Nancy you are spot on. The programme was clearly aiming to stir up shock horror and outrage. Anyone who is a regular cruiser will have had enough contact with staff to have formed their own opinion. Everything is relative.The pay and conditions are satisfactory to the majority of staff who return time after time. Lots of people work long hours. My partner is a coach driver paid minimum wage for terrible conditions – and no he doesn’t get squillions in tips (not these days). Last week he finished a days work at 10.15pm for a day off next day. He had to go to bed at 8.30 on his day off as he started work at 3.30am the next day. The programme was shockingly poorly researched and amateurish. No credibility whatsoever. Many people may now discount any genuine crew injustices because of this programme.
October 3, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Why not look at some of the positives, like the medical cover, sick pay and pension provision?
Sue, what gives you the idea that all crew are paid a pension ?
And I’m not sure about paying them when they are sick otherwise why would many Cabin Stewards them continue to work when clearly they are unwell…I’m thinking particularly of sea sickness in bad weather where our cabin steward looked like death but she still showed up.
October 3, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Celeb’s should have twigged when an English man who are not noted to like hard work, applied for a job as trainee waiter, when he could get more on the dole!! for doing nothing.
October 3, 2012 at 10:55 pm
Having cruised many times with different cruise lines I TOTALLY agree with everything you say. Dispatches should have presented this programme with all-round experiences of crew working in all areas on board not just one or two sections. Not all contracts are for as long as 10 months and although I’m sure that crew members don’t get as much time to go ashore as they would like, they do go ashore by rota system and in this regard the programme was very misleading. In fact, it was very misleading and one-sided for the whole of the show.
Although pay and conditions of senior officers on board cruise ships bear no resemblance to crew pay and conditions, they too have long-term contracts – it’s part of working at sea.
October 4, 2012 at 9:11 am
Correction to my comments. $700 not $7000 was the amount received by each crew member.
October 4, 2012 at 11:00 am
Absolutely agree with the article. Of course working on a cruise ship is very hard work. My daughter worked with a major UK holiday company abroad and was exploited to a much worse degree, though. The programme seemed to object to the glitz above decks as much as to the below decks conditions. Does the reporter clean her own bathroom in a hotel, or wash up after herself in a restaurant? When she’s finished for the day in the office, does she run the Hoover round and clean the loo?
October 4, 2012 at 11:53 am
I’ve been with Celebrity twice and cannot believe that life is so bad for the staff. I have spoken to many of the staff during the cruises and it is surprising how many have been with Celebrity for a number of years. All the staff are incredibly polite, smile as much as can be expected and very rarely complain. Would this be the case if conditions were as bad as Channel 4 made out. Once again a tv documentary which only focuses on the negatives of a few disgruntled staff.
October 4, 2012 at 2:27 pm
We have cruised with 12 different cruise companies over the past 20 years and the only time we experienceed a display of discontent by members of the crew was on MSC Opera. Our pre dinner drinks where 20 minutes in arriving and the waiter service was very lack lustre. When we questioned the bus boy it transpired that the crew members had flown from India to Rome and had only been on board a couple of hours prior to setting sail. They had had no sleep for 24 hours and had to start work straight away. We were on the maiden voyage of the Ventura and our cabin steward’s complaint was the distance he had to walk to obtain goods from his store. On the Thomson Spirit the Maitre de confided that he was looking forward to returning toa smaller ship, the Coral, at the end of his contract. None stated they were leaving because of dissatisfaction. We have returned to ships with years between and found the same crew members on board. There must be a reason for loyalty and don’t think it is to do with poor pay.
October 4, 2012 at 3:34 pm
I watched the programme and I have been on 1 cruise after which I decided it wasn’t my thing. It all felt very colonial and as I see from some of the comments left by regular cruisers on this blog – who quote – “that as they have done a number of cruises and had enough contact with staff”. Really, and this gives you the expertise and experience of cruise staff’s working conditions, how exactly? Enough said. I don’t doubt that for some people this line of work proves to better than they would have in their own country……………it still doesn’t make it right.
October 4, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Until we learned better our first cruises were on Princess.
We paid gratuities direct to the crew members concerned until we were told that whatever we gave the crew had to be tipped up to the supervisor of whichever department it was. So If we tipped the waiter and asst. waiter they had to give it all to the head waiter who DECIDED who got what and when.
Eventually we moved to Celebrity Cruises and hopefully will stay with them for the foreseeable future.
We prepay our tips mainly so that others who help to make our holiday so enjoyable, (but we never meet them), get a share.
Then we can if we wish give an extra amount to any individual, and they keep it. Which is how it should be anyway.
If the programme had not been so heavily edited, it would have been so obvious how happy 99% of the crew are on Celebrity Eclipse. You only have to walk onboard to access your stateroom to feel the happy atmosphere, and the attitude of the crew and their ability to remember who is who and who drinks what, who eats what etc., can only be done if a person is enjoying his/her job.
October 4, 2012 at 5:16 pm
We’ve been on a few cruises with RC and Princess and have never been clear about how the tipping system works. If we were to prepay tips we assumed that the crew got their fair share on top of their wages. It looks however that the tips are used to pay the staff wages and if they are not enough then the cruise line makes them up to the minimum wage. Best idea as far as i can see not to prepay tips, ask on the cruise that they are not automatically added to your bill and then give tips in cash to the staff that have provided you with great service – that way the will get the guaranteed wage anyway from the cruise line and will have cash tips as well.
Personally I do not like the automatic charging of tips at all (not just on cruises). I thought tips were for service that went above what you would expect from the staff anyway. If I have paid to go on what is usually a 5* holiday on a cruise ship then I would expect 5* service from the staff. I do not think that good service should only be given in order to get a tip.
I think there should be a much clearer explanation of the prepaid tips and a guarantee that they are paid on top of the wages.
October 5, 2012 at 2:39 pm
It is wonderful that an outsider has spoken out for crew members who have been scared to speak out about their dire work environment due to fear of retaliation (which has happened many times in the past). Crew have been silent for years and learned to accept the unreasonable working demands placed on them by their rich cruise ship employers; history have showed them that if they speak out or demand improvements, they do not get re-employed.
In an attempt to defend their exploitation of crew members cruise ship companies like to mention that crew earn much more than they would have back in their own countries. This does not justify inhumane working demands on crew.
Celebrity stated in their defence,’ “Celebrity Cruises operates in full accordance with International Labour Organisation (ILO) recommendations for minimum wages for seafarers….”. This is not entirely true. The International Labour Organisation and International Maritime Organisation have recognised that seafarers are often treated unfairly and exploited; therefore they have created the International Maritime Labour Convention of 2006 in which they clearly states what is considered to be fair working conditions for seafarers including crew on cruise ships.
The countries in which most cruise ships are registered (the so called flags of convenience) have conveniently not ratified this convention (List of countries who have accepted it is available on ILO website…Malta is not listed Celebrity!). Crew working conditions on cruise ships do not meet criteria as per the Maritime Labour Convention of 2006 and the cruise ship owners prefers that the countries their ships are registered in do not ratify the convention. The cruise ship owners quickly mention that they abide to this or that ILO regulation in order to get the media off their back… If a ship is not accepting the International Maritime Labour convention of 2006, all their ILO excuses are in vain. They should abide to all of the recommendations of the convention…not only those they have conveniently selected.
Dear cruisers, most crew do get exploited. They work long hours and for little money. This is one of the reasons that the cruise ship industry is still so lucrative and growing…cheap poorly regulated labour resulting in huge profits for the cruise ship companies. Maybe it is time that profits decrease slightly in order to treat the always willing and friendly cruise ship crew like first world citizens.
October 7, 2012 at 7:09 pm
Got back yesterday from my latest RCCL cruise.
They have now changed the method of tipping staff. Instead of handing out vouchers now (because of their concern for the environment!) tips are indicated as they see fit. You have no say in the matter if you pay up-front.
If for example you had a bad server, you could not leave him/her out of the tipping scheme. A customer can only add to it for “very special” service.
October 16, 2012 at 3:21 am
We pay in advance the tips. Also carry single dollars and every time for room svce and in the restaurant we tip extra.
October 22, 2012 at 3:24 pm
I have been on over 40 cruises with most of the liner companies, and I have never seen an unhappy crew members apart from the Thomson Dream when it was having all those early day problems, but the staff were the ones getting the brunt of the passengers rants instead of the company..
The program did give a mixed reflection on life onboard, as the crew were very happy to continue working on that particular cruise as well as work with the same company for many contracts. If the conditions were that bad, then even if the crew needed the job or the money they would not stay in those terms, but travel to another liner instead. A lot of the staff I have spoken to over the years have all said that they enjoy the work, and the passengers are so friendly, and they do get time off in port to do some relaxations.
The biggest issue we were commonly told on board our cruises from staff were the cost of calling home onboard, they had to wait to be in port and to call their family as it was cheaper and they could talk longer. Which is ok, as satalite costs are expensive for anyone not only staff. If you have been a passenger and used your phone, ipad etc, you will have seen this costs when at sea.
I wonder how the staff were so open to the fact of talking openly to a stranger who had only just joined them, and were asking lots of questions, did they know they were being quizzed for information, did they know it was for a documentary, or was it edited that the bad parts were the only ones shown???
I mean there is often up to 1000 staff onboard yet we only saw three or four people talked to… and if they were really that frustrated with their terms and conditions they would not have been there for years !!
How did this reporter manage to get a month contract yet usually they are 6 monthly or 3 monthly? He must have gone through some training before he went onboard. but what about the Agency that put him onboard, I would like to see their comments on this, as they gave him incorrect information on his contract and wages, and a lot of the staff mentioned in the program also said the agency did this and that, so I would really like to see a response from the Agency that gave him a place onboard without a contract…. without anything in writing about his terms and conditions or confirmation of his wages, including having to pay for your uniform.
This would all be done as the norm in the UK and i am sure worldwide when taking up any form of employment, so I think the Agency is needing to be looked at, as they are sending employees onboard without any security, yet I am sure they would take a percentage of what they are earning onboard,,, !!
look forward to reading the responses from Celebrity and the Agency…
x